In 2005, I wrote this article in The Times, where I was football editor. It caused fury on both sides of the city. One Liverpool website "outed" me as an Evertonian. I tried to be brutally honest
This is a difficult read, albeit an unusually stark and honest appraisal of what happened that day. I have attended many away games in the champions league where things have gotten a little naughty. But of course nothing I’ve seen, or heard of elsewhere, comes close to what happened in Heysel. You accept a lot of responsibility here, Tony. It’s admirable. But it isn’t everything. I mean, nobody forced Liverpool fans to drink to excess. Nobody forced them to steal beer, or the hats of young men who couldn’t protect themselves. Nobody made the guy on the coach carry an iron bar with him or attack people with it once he was off the coach. And nobody forced Liverpool fans to charge at Juventus fans, smashing the wall, and murdering 39 people. So not all of the causal links you mentioned are justifiable in my opinion as excuses, though perhaps you’re not offering them as that? I’m very interested to wonder why this happened to Liverpool fans particularly, when it hasn’t happened to the fans of other clubs. Perhaps this is something you’re going to touch upon in your second piece? Because it does seem to an outsider that the Liverpool fans on that day were in a kind of mood to make something like this happen. You seem to mention that as an undercurrent in your piece? And that’s the part that’s really interesting, I think.
Can you point out where the ‘excuses’ are. On the hat, I actually say it was bullying. I think you’re confusing context with something else. If you don’t mind me asking, how old are you? Going in the Champions League era is so different as to be unbelievable. Why did Heysel happen? Well, I could have focused on the Belgian inquiry. The death-trap ground. The two police forces, local and national, who policed different areas of the ground and whose radios were incompatible. The foolishness of Uefa who ignored warning from Liverpool about allocations. But no, I focused on us, using my experience. Frankly, I don’t know what could appease you. Oh, and as for other English clubs (or the national team), go research England in Luxembourg, Switzerland or Turin. Leeds in Paris. Tottenham in Rotterdam (or the Spurs fan who was shot dead in Brussels). United at St Etienne and Valencia… all of these incidents could have ended in tragedy had the stadiums been in the state of Heysel. Liverpool had the best reputation of any club from this country. But I am writing about our part in this. Not what anyone else did. And not even about mitigating circumstances. I’m putting forth our responsibility. If you think you’ve seen excuses, I’d recommend taking comprehension classes. Liverpool had 21 successive seasons in Europe until 1985 with minimal disruption. The three pieces I’ve done – you won’t have seen the Rome one, because today is the anniversary – are an attempt to give context. And no, we weren’t ‘in a mood to make something like this happen.’ We were scared, suspicious, deluded when it came to the strength of alcohol but, most of all, in fear of an ultra culture that we thought fetishised stabbing (it does, but only in Rome, perhaps also in Naples to a lesser extent). But we didn’t have the internet. All we had was experience of what happened a year before. I know it’s hard for modern-day Easyjet Ultras to understand, but the world was so different as to be unrecognisable. Fucking excuses. I could have written a book deflecting away from us. But no. Never. Read it again. Read around it. I’ve fronted up on this in a way no one else has. No hooligan bollocks mythology. No fingerpointing at anyone else. All I’m concerned about is our part but to give some context rather than a cartoon version. Too old for that shit
I’m 65, so in my 20’s at the time of Heysel, which I recall watching unfold on TV ahead of the game itself.
Before going any further I feel like something in the tone of my reply must have been amiss, if you think I was attacking you or your piece - I wasn’t, or at least I didn’t intend to - as I said at the get go, I thought it brave, responsible, thoughtful and articulate. You don’t need to appease me, and I completely recognize the responsibility you are taking here, and the contrition you express which I am certain is genuine. I hope I don’t need comprehension lessons either, though it’s possible I do. Thereafter:
When I mention excuses, perhaps I chose the wrong word. I was trying to reference your comment of the long causal chain you say lead to the event. I mean, when 39 people are murdered is it enough to say the beer was stronger than we thought and we were scared of getting a duffing?
Certainly your comments around the administration of the event are spot on. The stadium wasn’t fit for purpose, and when it comes to the corruption, brutality, and lawlessness of police forces in any country, and particularly our own, you may be surprised to know you have more in common with an Easyjet Ultra than you imagine.
I’ll certainly reread your piece, and the forthcoming pieces. Again, I completely acknowledge (and for what it’s worth) appreciate your fronting up. I still am curious as to why it happened to Liverpool and no one else. Perhaps this continuing idea of mine is to do with your reference to how Liverpool fans have been seen since Heysel? Thinking about the stampede at Wembley in the recent Euros I take your point about how it could have happened elsewhere and to other fan groups. I’m interested in the idea of crowd behavior/mob mentality and the shedding of individual responsibility in instances like this (as well in a thoughtful historical consideration such as yours) and why it seems yo be football fans in particular who behave this way (knowing/remembering I am one of them and have felt the undercurrent feelings one often gets in mob situations in certain circumstances).
Anyway, I spent a lot of words here reproaching myself, and apologizing to you, not because I agree with everything you say - though I agree with much of it, and understand even in areas I disagree with - but because I respected your piece and clearly misplaced my response, at least going by your response to my response.
You’re right, I didn’t like your tone. And I don’t like the use of the word ‘murdered.’ People were killed. That’s bad enough. But nowhere in any law could this be defined as murder. But let’s put that aside and I apologise for being cranky. This is a touchy subject. Frankly, I get shot by both sides over this. I’m as interested as you in crowd dynamics. It’s not really just football. Often, it’s a case of class perception. Rugby union crowds are often as rowdy and certainly more boozy than football crowds but the public’s view of them is defined in a different way. Violence between rugby league fans is one of the underreported stories (although it’s not that much of a problem). The curious thing about Heysel is it was so unexpected. This is a quote from the second in command Brussels police after a visit to Merseyside. "The English police had told me that the Reds' supporters were among the most well-behaved in England. At Anfield, there were no fences between the stands and the pitch.” After plane crashes, the investigations are intricate. You find that there’s a chain of little things that happen that amplify the determining event – or at least create the environment for it. This was what I was trying to do, to show our part in the chain. Proper stadium, reasonable policing, no one dies. But that’s not good enough for me. Should, for example, Merseyside police’s intelligence unit (oxymoron) have flagged up our attitude to ultras after Rome to their Belgian counterparts? Don’t think that was done. Anyway, all good between us. I think we’re both trying to get to the same place
Appreciate this Tony, and I look forward to reading your other pieces. Your writing is thought provoking in the best way, I’ve been thinking about the points you made a lot. Also about my own reflex responses (I do think my perception of Liverpool fans has been coloured by Heysel as I understood it - which I can see now is not very deeply or thoroughly.) I also agree entirely with your ideas on class and football versus crowds in other sports. And of course about the city of Liverpool versus the institutions of the state.
Really brave piece of writing, holding one’s hand up to the alcoholic excesses and misjudgements of youth is a tough one to front up but you paint a very frank and brutal portrayal of how it was to be a football fan abroad.
Thanks Charlie. To get a wider picture of the culture, you might want to read my novel, Good Guys Lost, which I’m serialising on here. It’s pretty raw and while it’s fiction, it accurately charts the type of world I was living in during the 1970s and 80s
"You find that there’s a chain of little things that happen that amplify the determining event – or at least create the environment for it." This is so true. It's the reason no single person, team or event (football & non football) is to blame.
Modern English football is far from perfect and very expensive but at least it's a lot safer these days encouraging 1000's more fans to attend matches compared to the 80s.
Hi Tony, Excellent piece and very honest of you , Hopefully your next article, will explain why it is always the Liverpool fans who cause murder and Trouble whenever they Travel ? Always the victims it’s never your fault! Your final comment about Everton fans being pathetic and self pity ? Well the simple facts are EFC had the Best team in Europe in 1985 just missing out of a fantastic treble , Brian clough , said after the final of the cup winners cup EFC would dominate Europe for years ! Peter Robinson, your then chairman was summoned to 10 Downing Street, Mrs Thatcher Told him this has to stop and I am ordering that all English clubs should be banned for five years ? PR later said to his Lawyer , I should have said it was only LFC who should be banned , But thought it would look bad on LFC if it was just his club that was just banned ! Now can you just imagine if that was EFC who got LFC Banned for five years ! There would be Blue murder
First off, Philip, can you give me a list of incidents involving 'Liverpool fans who cause murder and Trouble whenever they Travel.' As for Everton, the piece was written in 2005 when a banner with the EFC badge, the names of the Heysel dead and the words '39 Italians can't be wrong' was being displayed. Google it. Easy to find. For what it's worth, Peter Robinson was a prick, Thatcher's actions were "an assault on working class culture" (that's Peter Reid's words, not mine. Also, I wrote an entire book, Two Tribes, about the aftermath of Heysel. The concept: Liverpool did the double, Everton and their fans saved football. The 20-year-old Heysel piece was about the warped perceptions of the event on Merseyside (particularly from Liverpool fans). Lastly, Brian Clough is not a man whose judgement I'd ever trust. The title winning Everton side was one of domestic football's greatest. Weren't quite as good with Lineker. But they should not have been banned. Only Liverpool should have been. For ever
Brutally honest mate, good stuff. I remember your account of Heysel in Good Guys Lost and it was similarly raw. I'd gone to a free beer festival that afternoon in north Manchester. Passed out in a field. When I woke up I realised right away I'd probably missed the match. Was shocked when I got home and learned what happened...
As a scouser born in 1959, I was 21yo when the Toxteth riots were happening, 25yo when Heysel happened, and 29yo when Hillsboro' happened (a school friend died that day, and the husband of another school friend also died). What I remember from the aftermath is that the Liverpool Echo amassed about 10,000 statements from travelling Liverpool fans who were at Heysel, together with a huge number of photo's. The "Echo" collated the statements to produce a document of the days events, using the information to build-up a corroborative dossier. From recollection, that dossier did not state that there was no hooliganism by LFC fans, but it did state that the violence was conducted by small group of people: specifically, led by a man in a white jacket who was "off his head".
This is a difficult read, albeit an unusually stark and honest appraisal of what happened that day. I have attended many away games in the champions league where things have gotten a little naughty. But of course nothing I’ve seen, or heard of elsewhere, comes close to what happened in Heysel. You accept a lot of responsibility here, Tony. It’s admirable. But it isn’t everything. I mean, nobody forced Liverpool fans to drink to excess. Nobody forced them to steal beer, or the hats of young men who couldn’t protect themselves. Nobody made the guy on the coach carry an iron bar with him or attack people with it once he was off the coach. And nobody forced Liverpool fans to charge at Juventus fans, smashing the wall, and murdering 39 people. So not all of the causal links you mentioned are justifiable in my opinion as excuses, though perhaps you’re not offering them as that? I’m very interested to wonder why this happened to Liverpool fans particularly, when it hasn’t happened to the fans of other clubs. Perhaps this is something you’re going to touch upon in your second piece? Because it does seem to an outsider that the Liverpool fans on that day were in a kind of mood to make something like this happen. You seem to mention that as an undercurrent in your piece? And that’s the part that’s really interesting, I think.
Can you point out where the ‘excuses’ are. On the hat, I actually say it was bullying. I think you’re confusing context with something else. If you don’t mind me asking, how old are you? Going in the Champions League era is so different as to be unbelievable. Why did Heysel happen? Well, I could have focused on the Belgian inquiry. The death-trap ground. The two police forces, local and national, who policed different areas of the ground and whose radios were incompatible. The foolishness of Uefa who ignored warning from Liverpool about allocations. But no, I focused on us, using my experience. Frankly, I don’t know what could appease you. Oh, and as for other English clubs (or the national team), go research England in Luxembourg, Switzerland or Turin. Leeds in Paris. Tottenham in Rotterdam (or the Spurs fan who was shot dead in Brussels). United at St Etienne and Valencia… all of these incidents could have ended in tragedy had the stadiums been in the state of Heysel. Liverpool had the best reputation of any club from this country. But I am writing about our part in this. Not what anyone else did. And not even about mitigating circumstances. I’m putting forth our responsibility. If you think you’ve seen excuses, I’d recommend taking comprehension classes. Liverpool had 21 successive seasons in Europe until 1985 with minimal disruption. The three pieces I’ve done – you won’t have seen the Rome one, because today is the anniversary – are an attempt to give context. And no, we weren’t ‘in a mood to make something like this happen.’ We were scared, suspicious, deluded when it came to the strength of alcohol but, most of all, in fear of an ultra culture that we thought fetishised stabbing (it does, but only in Rome, perhaps also in Naples to a lesser extent). But we didn’t have the internet. All we had was experience of what happened a year before. I know it’s hard for modern-day Easyjet Ultras to understand, but the world was so different as to be unrecognisable. Fucking excuses. I could have written a book deflecting away from us. But no. Never. Read it again. Read around it. I’ve fronted up on this in a way no one else has. No hooligan bollocks mythology. No fingerpointing at anyone else. All I’m concerned about is our part but to give some context rather than a cartoon version. Too old for that shit
Hi Tony,
I’m 65, so in my 20’s at the time of Heysel, which I recall watching unfold on TV ahead of the game itself.
Before going any further I feel like something in the tone of my reply must have been amiss, if you think I was attacking you or your piece - I wasn’t, or at least I didn’t intend to - as I said at the get go, I thought it brave, responsible, thoughtful and articulate. You don’t need to appease me, and I completely recognize the responsibility you are taking here, and the contrition you express which I am certain is genuine. I hope I don’t need comprehension lessons either, though it’s possible I do. Thereafter:
When I mention excuses, perhaps I chose the wrong word. I was trying to reference your comment of the long causal chain you say lead to the event. I mean, when 39 people are murdered is it enough to say the beer was stronger than we thought and we were scared of getting a duffing?
Certainly your comments around the administration of the event are spot on. The stadium wasn’t fit for purpose, and when it comes to the corruption, brutality, and lawlessness of police forces in any country, and particularly our own, you may be surprised to know you have more in common with an Easyjet Ultra than you imagine.
I’ll certainly reread your piece, and the forthcoming pieces. Again, I completely acknowledge (and for what it’s worth) appreciate your fronting up. I still am curious as to why it happened to Liverpool and no one else. Perhaps this continuing idea of mine is to do with your reference to how Liverpool fans have been seen since Heysel? Thinking about the stampede at Wembley in the recent Euros I take your point about how it could have happened elsewhere and to other fan groups. I’m interested in the idea of crowd behavior/mob mentality and the shedding of individual responsibility in instances like this (as well in a thoughtful historical consideration such as yours) and why it seems yo be football fans in particular who behave this way (knowing/remembering I am one of them and have felt the undercurrent feelings one often gets in mob situations in certain circumstances).
Anyway, I spent a lot of words here reproaching myself, and apologizing to you, not because I agree with everything you say - though I agree with much of it, and understand even in areas I disagree with - but because I respected your piece and clearly misplaced my response, at least going by your response to my response.
You’re right, I didn’t like your tone. And I don’t like the use of the word ‘murdered.’ People were killed. That’s bad enough. But nowhere in any law could this be defined as murder. But let’s put that aside and I apologise for being cranky. This is a touchy subject. Frankly, I get shot by both sides over this. I’m as interested as you in crowd dynamics. It’s not really just football. Often, it’s a case of class perception. Rugby union crowds are often as rowdy and certainly more boozy than football crowds but the public’s view of them is defined in a different way. Violence between rugby league fans is one of the underreported stories (although it’s not that much of a problem). The curious thing about Heysel is it was so unexpected. This is a quote from the second in command Brussels police after a visit to Merseyside. "The English police had told me that the Reds' supporters were among the most well-behaved in England. At Anfield, there were no fences between the stands and the pitch.” After plane crashes, the investigations are intricate. You find that there’s a chain of little things that happen that amplify the determining event – or at least create the environment for it. This was what I was trying to do, to show our part in the chain. Proper stadium, reasonable policing, no one dies. But that’s not good enough for me. Should, for example, Merseyside police’s intelligence unit (oxymoron) have flagged up our attitude to ultras after Rome to their Belgian counterparts? Don’t think that was done. Anyway, all good between us. I think we’re both trying to get to the same place
Appreciate this Tony, and I look forward to reading your other pieces. Your writing is thought provoking in the best way, I’ve been thinking about the points you made a lot. Also about my own reflex responses (I do think my perception of Liverpool fans has been coloured by Heysel as I understood it - which I can see now is not very deeply or thoroughly.) I also agree entirely with your ideas on class and football versus crowds in other sports. And of course about the city of Liverpool versus the institutions of the state.
I wish you well.
Really brave piece of writing, holding one’s hand up to the alcoholic excesses and misjudgements of youth is a tough one to front up but you paint a very frank and brutal portrayal of how it was to be a football fan abroad.
Really glad I stumbled across your Substack.
Thanks Charlie. To get a wider picture of the culture, you might want to read my novel, Good Guys Lost, which I’m serialising on here. It’s pretty raw and while it’s fiction, it accurately charts the type of world I was living in during the 1970s and 80s
"You find that there’s a chain of little things that happen that amplify the determining event – or at least create the environment for it." This is so true. It's the reason no single person, team or event (football & non football) is to blame.
Modern English football is far from perfect and very expensive but at least it's a lot safer these days encouraging 1000's more fans to attend matches compared to the 80s.
A hard read but great writing. Let’s hope everyone learns…soon.
Hi Tony, Excellent piece and very honest of you , Hopefully your next article, will explain why it is always the Liverpool fans who cause murder and Trouble whenever they Travel ? Always the victims it’s never your fault! Your final comment about Everton fans being pathetic and self pity ? Well the simple facts are EFC had the Best team in Europe in 1985 just missing out of a fantastic treble , Brian clough , said after the final of the cup winners cup EFC would dominate Europe for years ! Peter Robinson, your then chairman was summoned to 10 Downing Street, Mrs Thatcher Told him this has to stop and I am ordering that all English clubs should be banned for five years ? PR later said to his Lawyer , I should have said it was only LFC who should be banned , But thought it would look bad on LFC if it was just his club that was just banned ! Now can you just imagine if that was EFC who got LFC Banned for five years ! There would be Blue murder
First off, Philip, can you give me a list of incidents involving 'Liverpool fans who cause murder and Trouble whenever they Travel.' As for Everton, the piece was written in 2005 when a banner with the EFC badge, the names of the Heysel dead and the words '39 Italians can't be wrong' was being displayed. Google it. Easy to find. For what it's worth, Peter Robinson was a prick, Thatcher's actions were "an assault on working class culture" (that's Peter Reid's words, not mine. Also, I wrote an entire book, Two Tribes, about the aftermath of Heysel. The concept: Liverpool did the double, Everton and their fans saved football. The 20-year-old Heysel piece was about the warped perceptions of the event on Merseyside (particularly from Liverpool fans). Lastly, Brian Clough is not a man whose judgement I'd ever trust. The title winning Everton side was one of domestic football's greatest. Weren't quite as good with Lineker. But they should not have been banned. Only Liverpool should have been. For ever
Brutally honest mate, good stuff. I remember your account of Heysel in Good Guys Lost and it was similarly raw. I'd gone to a free beer festival that afternoon in north Manchester. Passed out in a field. When I woke up I realised right away I'd probably missed the match. Was shocked when I got home and learned what happened...
As a scouser born in 1959, I was 21yo when the Toxteth riots were happening, 25yo when Heysel happened, and 29yo when Hillsboro' happened (a school friend died that day, and the husband of another school friend also died). What I remember from the aftermath is that the Liverpool Echo amassed about 10,000 statements from travelling Liverpool fans who were at Heysel, together with a huge number of photo's. The "Echo" collated the statements to produce a document of the days events, using the information to build-up a corroborative dossier. From recollection, that dossier did not state that there was no hooliganism by LFC fans, but it did state that the violence was conducted by small group of people: specifically, led by a man in a white jacket who was "off his head".